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d that social security has nothing to do with the deficit. 2037. solvent and until medicare is solvent until 2024. u think where we're at, i know as i listenhen the question would the republicans get anything, i don'tven wa to use the word conceding coming together on behalf of the erican people where 62% believe on november 6th when the race was over the vote was really on whether or not shoulde a fair tax burden on those --. melissa: i'll give that to yo les go ahead and raise taxes. say we do that. that doesn't get us close to solving the problem. mean we still have $16.3 trillion in debt. we are still running $4 billion a day beyond what we're making. we this huge problem this country. if it was a house you wuld throw uppyour arms in distress say, my god, we can never y all theseills. that is sort of the point. >> i'm not in distress on that. first of all with the tax rrlief for 98% of the americans, wel turn a reasoned amount of a trillion upwards back into the treasury. that is the first st. secondarily, a lot of economists will make it v cle
d that social security has nothing to do with the deficit. 2037. solvent and until medicare is solvent until 2024. u think where we're at, i know as i listenhen the question would the republicans get anything, i don'tven wa to use the word conceding coming together on behalf of the erican people where 62% believe on november 6th when the race was over the vote was really on whether or not shoulde a fair tax burden on those --. melissa: i'll give that to yo les go ahead and raise taxes. say we...
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so of course we can't raise enough taxes to completely deal witthe deficit. and you do have to do reforms. you need to reform the tax system. you certainly need to make additional cuts. i do want to remind you though, that we have already voted on one trillion dollars of cuts, cuts that would cause great pain. i agree what you 100%. it can not be done. melissa: spending cutting numbers are even smaller than the tax numbers. they don't get us there either. i'm worried about stalling the economy. in the meantime when we talk about raising taxes and what it would do to small business. democrats like to point out we would only raise taxes on 3% of small business owners. >> right. melissa: but that 3% generates 50% of the inme from small business. so they're hiringhe majori of people. to me that is going to cost us jobs. >> well,ou know what? i think that what will cost us jobs for sure is if we go off thissfiscal cliff, because it is not just about ising tacks. it is also about the debt ceiling. it is about unemployment insurance. we have number of key issues tha
so of course we can't raise enough taxes to completely deal witthe deficit. and you do have to do reforms. you need to reform the tax system. you certainly need to make additional cuts. i do want to remind you though, that we have already voted on one trillion dollars of cuts, cuts that would cause great pain. i agree what you 100%. it can not be done. melissa: spending cutting numbers are even smaller than the tax numbers. they don't get us there either. i'm worried about stalling the economy....
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last i looked at the trade deficit, we were, again, lagging and uke sking popped water. there's arising deficit stripping our gdp. >>nd right now europe is in a relative deep recession. we're still above water. lou: you jumped all over the punch line because you talk about things not making sense. folks, this is not making sense. i'm delighted because people have wealth left in the equities market, the bond market. w long will that be the case if we go over the cliff? >> won't be the case for long if we have a recession followed by a typical bear market. lou: how long to get to recession -- >> we can get there pretty quick. in fact, some of the down downdrafts are starting to form. we saw those in the q3 gdp numbers were sinking into @%ntraction. lou: 2.7 -- >> employment reports gnar november and december, not surprised if gains in private sector payrolls are well over 100,000 new jobs. lou: that would not be good. baseline at least, i think, for passable is 125. what's your judgment? >> about the same, okay, that's a c-minus grade, get a "c" if we hit 150. lou: might s
last i looked at the trade deficit, we were, again, lagging and uke sking popped water. there's arising deficit stripping our gdp. >>nd right now europe is in a relative deep recession. we're still above water. lou: you jumped all over the punch line because you talk about things not making sense. folks, this is not making sense. i'm delighted because people have wealth left in the equities market, the bond market. w long will that be the case if we go over the cliff? >> won't be...
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this will not make a dent in the deficit. here to disagree with me is christian dorsey from the economic policy institute. christian, thank you so much for coming back to the show. you are always a spirited debate partner. tell me why you like this. >> i'll tell you, melissa, to me this is not so much about the revenue that it would raise but about the message and principle it stand for, that we can't in this country have a situation where people are making millions of dollars effectively paying lower tax rates than america's middle class families. the principle of this, of this rule is actually what's most important. the revenue that it raises, it is important because it is not chump change but it is not in of itself going to change our deficit conversation but the principle is one that is extremely important. liz: but you're talking about wealthier people. well thinker people pay a higher average tax rate. everybody pulls out the stat that they want to look at. if you look at average tax rate of the top 1%, it is 23%, almos
this will not make a dent in the deficit. here to disagree with me is christian dorsey from the economic policy institute. christian, thank you so much for coming back to the show. you are always a spirited debate partner. tell me why you like this. >> i'll tell you, melissa, to me this is not so much about the revenue that it would raise but about the message and principle it stand for, that we can't in this country have a situation where people are making millions of dollars effectively...
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supply deficit on that market and it sure helps to see the good jobs number. that was another supportive situation. when it comes to the copper market, we are again today. one of the strongest metals in the metal complex, the copper market. that is a good sign for economic growth down road. back to you, cheryl casone and dennis kneale. cheryl: thanks to both of you. breaking news into fox business. want to show you once again live pictures out of cairo, egypt. reuters is reporting protesters have breached a military barricade. that barricade is protecting the presidential palace. the protesters are upset about the president's decree giving him almost unquestioned power over his government but reuters reporting the barrier has been broken. they tried two days ago and were unsuccessful. those protesters have had success. we will keep you posted. fiscal cliff survival kit looking for a save haven, munis, maybe the way to go. we will do you y. dennis: employees of random house in for a lot of green, 50 shades of gray. how the world's currencies are faring against
supply deficit on that market and it sure helps to see the good jobs number. that was another supportive situation. when it comes to the copper market, we are again today. one of the strongest metals in the metal complex, the copper market. that is a good sign for economic growth down road. back to you, cheryl casone and dennis kneale. cheryl: thanks to both of you. breaking news into fox business. want to show you once again live pictures out of cairo, egypt. reuters is reporting protesters...
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well, we often hear about, of course, $16 trillion national debt, a trillion dollar deficit first, the actual liabilities of the federal government, including social security, medicare, federal employees future retirement benefits exceeding $866trillion. by the way, that is five and a half times the size of our economy. joining us, former congressman bill archer, served as chairman of the powerful ways and means committee. he is a senior policy adviser at price waterhouse coopers, and it is great to see you, mr. chairman, once again. you look terrific. i enjoyed your op-ed along with chris cox. pointing out that essentially what a relief it was to find out of all have to worry about $16 trillion. i have to worry about $86 trillion. >> it is much bigger than what we were looking at. the so-called fiscal cliff is going to be just a slope and ultimately a relatively small indentation because in the long term when we began to look at the liabilities that we have committed to primarily medicare, but also social security and other ffderal retirement, it is massive. and this strange thing abo
well, we often hear about, of course, $16 trillion national debt, a trillion dollar deficit first, the actual liabilities of the federal government, including social security, medicare, federal employees future retirement benefits exceeding $866trillion. by the way, that is five and a half times the size of our economy. joining us, former congressman bill archer, served as chairman of the powerful ways and means committee. he is a senior policy adviser at price waterhouse coopers, and it is...
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. >> i think there's going to be a frame work achieved, but not meaningful debt or deficit reduction, no reform to entitlements, and i don't think there's tax reform. there's a deal in form, but i think there's more to get done. >> are we done? >> ask another if you want. >> do they really have to raise taxes? people accepted that's the outcome. >> i think that they need to raise revenue. how they do it, whether it's some tax increases or some limiting of deductions, but it shouldn't be hard to bridge a gap that's wider and wider. >> a matter of what it looks like, a given at this point. >> i think it is. >> higher taxes are coming. doug, thank you. ask as many questions as you want. >> you're generous with your time. >> that's what dagen does when she's here. >> she would be huck -- heckling you for your bad voice today. the supposed middleman in the debt negotiations throwing fire on the talks this week by saying nothing will get done unless republicans agree to raise tax rates on the rich. >> there you go. rich edson in dc with the latest on that. hey, rich. >> congressional republ
. >> i think there's going to be a frame work achieved, but not meaningful debt or deficit reduction, no reform to entitlements, and i don't think there's tax reform. there's a deal in form, but i think there's more to get done. >> are we done? >> ask another if you want. >> do they really have to raise taxes? people accepted that's the outcome. >> i think that they need to raise revenue. how they do it, whether it's some tax increases or some limiting of...
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. >> this is not about getting a handle on deficits or debt for him. it's about spending even more than he has. >> white house aids reject the republican claims that holding the debt limit over the president's head is the only mechanism to get him to trim spending. >> you're just going to keep at the debt limit goes higher, you spend more money. you and congress, both. >> that's false. president signed into law a trillion dollars in discretionary cuts. the president has a specific proposal to achieve $600 billion in savings from entitlement programs like health care entitlement programs. >> jay compared republican pressure on the debt ceiling to a hostage taking. >> a profoundly bad idea that i think could not be more frightening for american businesses, and american workers. >> treasury secretary tim geithner may have frightened people yesterday saying the white house is prepared to go off the fiscal cliff unless republicans bend on taxes. a comment by former democratic potential candidate howard deen frighted republicans that the debate is not just a
. >> this is not about getting a handle on deficits or debt for him. it's about spending even more than he has. >> white house aids reject the republican claims that holding the debt limit over the president's head is the only mechanism to get him to trim spending. >> you're just going to keep at the debt limit goes higher, you spend more money. you and congress, both. >> that's false. president signed into law a trillion dollars in discretionary cuts. the president has...
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tax increase on midle class families, strengthening our economy, and adopting a balanced apoach to deficit reduction. and so it goes. my first guest says it does not matter who you tax or what form revee takeshim, taking more money at the private sector will hurt economic growth. joining us now, republican senator from the great state of kentucky from the senat rand paul. good to have you with us, senar. >> good evening. the president says we don't have enough time for tax reform or in thailand reeorm. you know my responses? we haveeentalking about this for two years. why haven't we done anything? i met with the president a year-and-a-half ago and i looked across the table in. i said in a we need to do something about social security. we nd to do something to sav medicare. they have done zero. how come there iso committee appear. d'aga washington. who is in charge of social security reform? nobody. everybodywaits for a dadline and throws uptheir hands and says we don't have enough time. it is broken up here, but because they're notdoing their job. lou: not doing theirjob, and whose job s i
tax increase on midle class families, strengthening our economy, and adopting a balanced apoach to deficit reduction. and so it goes. my first guest says it does not matter who you tax or what form revee takeshim, taking more money at the private sector will hurt economic growth. joining us now, republican senator from the great state of kentucky from the senat rand paul. good to have you with us, senar. >> good evening. the president says we don't have enough time for tax reform or in...
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we all want to reduce the deficit, and if you look at where the tax rates were in the clinton administration with the highest and most sustained economic growth in the history of the country, that's where they went to and maybe there's a compromise there where they wouldn't even go that high, but to say they're not going to expire at all, we'll do what we have been doing, that's an unsustainable position. dennis: all right, you know what? i appreciate it, we have to wrap it up. i appreciate you both came on here together today. thank you very much for being here, and keep working at it. we need your help. >> have a good one. >> thanks. cheryl: more on breaking news from egypt. look at the pictures coming out of cairo. at this point, an estimated 50,000 protesters are in tahrir square chaptering down with morsi and the constitution. he rammed through a referendum, a draft constitution, supposed to be september 15th; we'll see, and groups, parties, just many members of the public in egypt taking part now. we learned moments ago that president morsi left the palace according to a report we just
we all want to reduce the deficit, and if you look at where the tax rates were in the clinton administration with the highest and most sustained economic growth in the history of the country, that's where they went to and maybe there's a compromise there where they wouldn't even go that high, but to say they're not going to expire at all, we'll do what we have been doing, that's an unsustainable position. dennis: all right, you know what? i appreciate it, we have to wrap it up. i appreciate you...
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you also think at the end of the day doesn't matter about the deficit. we are focused on the wrong issue and you are telling long-term investors stay in, don't tinker. >> stay the course. stocks are still cheap, very dumb policy makers at the end of the day. this is not sandy number 2. we can fix it. the stock market is not just the united states. take a company like coca-cola, 80% of sales outside this country and finally even if we were to go off of the cliff there are long-term benefits and a lower deficit so at the end of the david as a long-term rise in, properly diversified state of course. cheryl: japanese stocks and aig, a stock that has run up 39% over the last year despite government issues and government involvement you're sticking with a ig. want to recommend that going into a cliff discussion. >> there is nothing about sandy and recent events that would cause anyone not to renew their property and cash will policy. no matter what happens to the economy people will pay that insurance, it is the dominant provider trading 40% off of book value.
you also think at the end of the day doesn't matter about the deficit. we are focused on the wrong issue and you are telling long-term investors stay in, don't tinker. >> stay the course. stocks are still cheap, very dumb policy makers at the end of the day. this is not sandy number 2. we can fix it. the stock market is not just the united states. take a company like coca-cola, 80% of sales outside this country and finally even if we were to go off of the cliff there are long-term...
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the campaign, congratulations, you had a great victory, and let's get serious about dealing with this deficit and debt here at the end of the year. >> back to the president's comments. he had yet before to explicitly say rates had to go up on those earning $250,000 or more. that was the white house position. that is their condition now for a deal. it's in the face of what republicans want saying no rate increases; however, a little wiggle room, and the president didn't rule out a smaller rate increase than he's calling for could be a part of a final product if they get to that stage. lizly thank you very much, rich edson. david: we have a governor who says his state takes the right action to prevent falling off its own fiscal cliff and the president can learn a lot. liz: joining us now is the iowa governor, and, governor, let us just explain that to the viewers. you deal with a democratic legislature, and you managed to get things done. you could show by example. how have you done it? what do you think inside the beltway crowd is doing wrong here? >> well, they need to get past the politics,
the campaign, congratulations, you had a great victory, and let's get serious about dealing with this deficit and debt here at the end of the year. >> back to the president's comments. he had yet before to explicitly say rates had to go up on those earning $250,000 or more. that was the white house position. that is their condition now for a deal. it's in the face of what republicans want saying no rate increases; however, a little wiggle room, and the president didn't rule out a smaller...
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in 2010 the state budget deficit was more than 40% of its general fund. 40 percent. the second highest of any state. s&p and moody's both give illinois the second worst credit rating in all of the 50 states. illinois is funded 45% of pension liability, the lowest percentage of any state. unemployment in illinois, very impressive as well. just under 10%. they had things well in hand in illinois. is it mentioned that is a haunted the president obama? anyway, the tenth highest unemployment rate in the country. for stub's illnois a death spiral state because for every hundred private-sector workers in illinois there are 103 depending upon those ivate-sector workers new york, aiming at the sixth worst death spiral state because for every 100 private-sector jobs in new york there are 107 who depend on the private sector for their -- well, their sustence. a per capita debt of nearl $6,700. $6,700 just for the state of new york. the six highest in the country. we have people worg about the fiscal cliff which is worth worrying about. some of these states have gotten a massive
in 2010 the state budget deficit was more than 40% of its general fund. 40 percent. the second highest of any state. s&p and moody's both give illinois the second worst credit rating in all of the 50 states. illinois is funded 45% of pension liability, the lowest percentage of any state. unemployment in illinois, very impressive as well. just under 10%. they had things well in hand in illinois. is it mentioned that is a haunted the president obama? anyway, the tenth highest unemployment...
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on the left, the number ishe projected deficit for this fiscal year, 2013. the production is $100,000,000,000.04. senator, this is a joke. this is 8% of the projected deficit and people are willing to, with absolute certainty, nd this count into recession and destroy millions of jobs. i mean, this president -- he is frankly -- he is about to deliver a disaster to the american people. >> the president has an opportunity to be a real leader or he can be a politician. he has just come off from the election. we will have to see in the next few weeks if he's going to be really involved. most of the jobs in america are fed by small usinesses. these tactics will go to small-business people. you're going to choke on the job recovery of the future. everyby knows that. i think that the president needs to get real with this. i guess he is still campaigning. he's a good campaigner. but this is real economics now. we have to put the campaign aside and see what is best for america. more taxes without cuts, that's not good for ameri to be one republicans can win this negot
on the left, the number ishe projected deficit for this fiscal year, 2013. the production is $100,000,000,000.04. senator, this is a joke. this is 8% of the projected deficit and people are willing to, with absolute certainty, nd this count into recession and destroy millions of jobs. i mean, this president -- he is frankly -- he is about to deliver a disaster to the american people. >> the president has an opportunity to be a real leader or he can be a politician. he has just come off...
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we are talking about deficit reduction, and the president is proposing new spending at top of all the other spending. republicans going into the deficit reduction talks talking about another dividend tax cut is something like that. a very poisonous way to start since the negotiations between two sites. the second thing that is important here is how we are viewing these jobless benefits. the administration is firming in in terms of job creation. that is not what they are. gerri: this is a study they did it, extending jobless benefits would create 300,000 jobs. i had to read it twice to figure out what they were talking about . and it still made no sense to me. explain the contorted logic to work here. >> thee're saying by putting money into the pockets of unemployed people that will deal to spend it on rant and consumer goods which will create jobs in the real-estate industry in the retail industry. the problem is a does not take into account that the people have to look for jobs that would also be doing that. double counting the money. the difficult thing is what we are talking about
we are talking about deficit reduction, and the president is proposing new spending at top of all the other spending. republicans going into the deficit reduction talks talking about another dividend tax cut is something like that. a very poisonous way to start since the negotiations between two sites. the second thing that is important here is how we are viewing these jobless benefits. the administration is firming in in terms of job creation. that is not what they are. gerri: this is a study...
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stuart: you're saying, oh, he left a deficit. it was congressional spending that led it a deficit. let's get back to the original argument. if you now, right now, lowered tax rates you would increase revenue to the treasury. >> you and i disagree on that. you and i disagree on that and i know my history and-- >> you think that by imposing higher tax rates, massive tax increase. >> no, no, not on everyone, not on everyone. stuart: tell me how you're going to get growth when you raise taxes by a trillion 6. go. >> are you talking about deficit reduction or growth. if you're talking about growth. stuart: growth in the economy. >> of course it's a combination of things and it's a matter of-- i believe na a bigger stimulus, for example. stuart: do you believe if we put this plan, the president's plan into practice now. >> i don't think the president's plan will be put into practice. stuart: do you think that we'd get 4 or 5% growth? >> i don't think it's a realistic plan, i said it from day one. stuart: and if we raise taxes, that's the heart of this thing, if we raise taxes do you thin
stuart: you're saying, oh, he left a deficit. it was congressional spending that led it a deficit. let's get back to the original argument. if you now, right now, lowered tax rates you would increase revenue to the treasury. >> you and i disagree on that. you and i disagree on that and i know my history and-- >> you think that by imposing higher tax rates, massive tax increase. >> no, no, not on everyone, not on everyone. stuart: tell me how you're going to get growth when you...
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to do serious long-term debt and deficit reduction you have to do entitlement reform. what this president is feeling is the popular sensibility is polls show the majority of americans don't even want to raise the age on medicare from 65 to 67 and they are using that so they don't have to do serious reform but you cannot control the debt or the deficit without serious in title and reform. medicare is going to come crashing down unless you do something period. dick durbin knows that. the liberal democratic senators signed off on the simpson-bowles proposal but right now he is saying i don't want to do that as part of the fiscal cliff solution. let's take off until next year. dennis: thank you for being with us. cheryl: fiscal cliff survival kit. today it is your home addition. new talk but washington made do away with the tax break for home mortgage deduction or change the calculation and hit high income earners. the managing partner of mortgage banking solutions joins me from austin, texas with his fiscal cliff survival tips. thank you for being with us on our series th
to do serious long-term debt and deficit reduction you have to do entitlement reform. what this president is feeling is the popular sensibility is polls show the majority of americans don't even want to raise the age on medicare from 65 to 67 and they are using that so they don't have to do serious reform but you cannot control the debt or the deficit without serious in title and reform. medicare is going to come crashing down unless you do something period. dick durbin knows that. the liberal...
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so we're going to be in the 20s as far as deficits going forward. i think they're taunting markets. i'm hoping we don't wake up one day and markets look at what is going on here and fire right back at them. tracy: you know what? you're not wrong. that is going to happen. between that and the bond bubble bursting we have a lot to look forward to in the new year. gary kaltbaum, kaltbaum capital management. >> my pleasure, thank you. ashley: every deal is a scam, a shell game and he's right. tracy: yeah. ashley: guess what? banks are bouncing back. the third quarter proving very profitable for some of the industry's biggest names but are we out of the woods just yet? gerri willis joins us ahead to talk about that. tracy: first as we do every day at this time of day look how oil is trading. it is basically flat. $88.82 a barrel. we'll be right back. ashley: it is time to make money with charles payne. this hour we're looking at pet health specialists pet med express. charles, how fat is joe is the question? tracy: ah, fat joe. >> fat joe. i told tracy, i don't know if i told you about a
so we're going to be in the 20s as far as deficits going forward. i think they're taunting markets. i'm hoping we don't wake up one day and markets look at what is going on here and fire right back at them. tracy: you know what? you're not wrong. that is going to happen. between that and the bond bubble bursting we have a lot to look forward to in the new year. gary kaltbaum, kaltbaum capital management. >> my pleasure, thank you. ashley: every deal is a scam, a shell game and he's right....
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and a $500 billion down payment on the deficit and the debt, i think, is actually a nice piece of certainty for business so that they can plan for 2013 and 2014. it will mean an exceedingly weak first quarter next year, but i think throughout the year economic growth will get stronger. david: well, but, michael, on the other hand, sometimes if i'm certain somebody's dead, that won't bring them back to life. sometimes certainty is not necessarily good news. you say that the market is rather than on the negative side rather than on the positive side, and if we do go over the fiscal cliff, you see possibility of negative figures as low as 4%, right? >> well, let's put all this in perspective. i think what i mentioned earlier was the fact that the s&p is up about 6% since november 16th, and we've run into technical resistance with some the previous people mentioned, and i think the market's just in a period now where it could easily pull back a little bit. if you listen to the rhetoric coming out of washington, we had the everybody gave your hugs after the election, now they're throwing out the
and a $500 billion down payment on the deficit and the debt, i think, is actually a nice piece of certainty for business so that they can plan for 2013 and 2014. it will mean an exceedingly weak first quarter next year, but i think throughout the year economic growth will get stronger. david: well, but, michael, on the other hand, sometimes if i'm certain somebody's dead, that won't bring them back to life. sometimes certainty is not necessarily good news. you say that the market is rather than...
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how are you going to bring down a trillion dollar deficit? i think the democrats are on -- i had to get that off my chest. stuart: gm car and truck sales are up 3%. the stock, dead flat. sales up 3%. that is the car sales numbers coming in today. steve, i want to get back to you here. the democrats say, wait a second, wait a second, you raise taxes on the rich just like the clinton did back in 1992 and you end up with a bill. you have a solid expansion. what do you make up with that argument? >> i hope they do not believe that argument. look, maybe barack obama is right. maybe if you raise these taxes, it will not hurt the economy. [talking over each other] stuart: bill clinton raised taxes and the economy took off. >> there are a lot of things that influence the economy. not just taxes. there are other things. there is no monetary policy, which was great under bill clinton. do not forget that bill clinton did welfare reform. one of the most historic acts over the last 50 years. do not forget that we caught government spending within those ye
how are you going to bring down a trillion dollar deficit? i think the democrats are on -- i had to get that off my chest. stuart: gm car and truck sales are up 3%. the stock, dead flat. sales up 3%. that is the car sales numbers coming in today. steve, i want to get back to you here. the democrats say, wait a second, wait a second, you raise taxes on the rich just like the clinton did back in 1992 and you end up with a bill. you have a solid expansion. what do you make up with that argument?...
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. >> well, we certainly should be because part of the deficit problem, a great part, is entitlements, social security and medicare, keep adding fiscal burdens as people's live expectancy increases and it's great that people are living longer but when social security was first thought of the life expectancy was only 67. now it is around 85. we need to raise retirement ages or somehow thinking about cutting back on benefits to keep the programs in balance. ashley: diana, the other side of this issue is coming down to taxes. two years ago the president said he didn't want to let taxes go up because gdp growth was so low. how can you make that argument two years later today. gdp still struggling to get any traction? >> he should be making that argument because gdp growth is now at 2%. it was at 2.5 when he made the argument in 2010. there was even more reason not to get tax rates higher, not to allow them to go higher. the only way we'll get out of this fiscal mess is through more economic growth. and if we raise tax rates that is going to stifle economic growth. we need to be keeping tax
. >> well, we certainly should be because part of the deficit problem, a great part, is entitlements, social security and medicare, keep adding fiscal burdens as people's live expectancy increases and it's great that people are living longer but when social security was first thought of the life expectancy was only 67. now it is around 85. we need to raise retirement ages or somehow thinking about cutting back on benefits to keep the programs in balance. ashley: diana, the other side of...
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states of america, the largest economy, that holds the world reserve currency, possibly defaults on its deficit. that we give up the basic notion that the united states stands behind its obligation. we cannot afford to go there again. this is not just my opinion. it is the opinion of most of the folks in this room. when i hear someone the other side suggesting that to resolve the possibility of a perpetual or a reportedly debt ceiling crisis, that there is a price to pay, the price is paid by the american people and your businesses and the economic environment worldwide. we should not accept going through that. you know, john engler, he and i philosophically do not agree on much -- [ laughter ] >> you know, i am just being honest about john. he ii a great politician. he comes from the other party. he is exactly right when he says the only thing that the debt ceiling is good for is destroying your credit rating. i want to send a very clear message to people here. we are not going to play that game next year. if congress in any way suggest that they will type negotiations to that feeling both and
states of america, the largest economy, that holds the world reserve currency, possibly defaults on its deficit. that we give up the basic notion that the united states stands behind its obligation. we cannot afford to go there again. this is not just my opinion. it is the opinion of most of the folks in this room. when i hear someone the other side suggesting that to resolve the possibility of a perpetual or a reportedly debt ceiling crisis, that there is a price to pay, the price is paid by...
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house says is less of an offer and the same position the administration staked out in its jobs bill and deficit proposal over the last couple years. half trillion in tax increases or trillion and a half in tax increases, $600 billion in spending cuts, more spending, and a permanent increase in the debt ceiling. on fox news sunday, boehner called that deal a joke. >> just flabbergasted. i looked, and said, you can't be serious? i just never seen anything like it. we got seven weeks between election day and the end of the year. three of those weeks have been wasted with the nonsense. >> okay. you heard them, the first time in two decades now, acknowledge they want revenues up as the balanced plan, a good first steppedded, but they have to say what they do operates and revenues. that's hard for republicans. >> runs of billions of spending cuts, tax increases begin in less than a month, and with the negotiations, two sides are about where they started. still, aids say it's early to be moving to an agreement with plenty of time for each side to extract the best deal possible before selling it to the
house says is less of an offer and the same position the administration staked out in its jobs bill and deficit proposal over the last couple years. half trillion in tax increases or trillion and a half in tax increases, $600 billion in spending cuts, more spending, and a permanent increase in the debt ceiling. on fox news sunday, boehner called that deal a joke. >> just flabbergasted. i looked, and said, you can't be serious? i just never seen anything like it. we got seven weeks between...
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melissa: the last two times the gas tax was raised, it was used to pay down the deficit. >> let me give you an example of where i think it may make sense. let's take new jersey which has been too much harm very much by hurricane sandy. we do not happen to pay a lot for gasoline in new jersey because we have low state taxes. if it went to funding for the reparations from sandy, it may make sense. you cannot be dismissive of it in any case. melissa: tom kloza, always a smart card. this is the first time you are wrong. [ laughter ] i am just kidding. thank you for coming on. cheryl: what do you think it would cost to fuel of the batmobile? the batmobile said to hit the auction block january 19 in scottsdale arizona. a price for the classic wheels has been set. they have refused to reveal it. it is expected to be in the millions. it was originally built in italy before being modified here in the states. it features everything from a bulletproof bubble windshield -- melissa: i love, tom. he is a great guy. lori: you will have to find your own sidekick to be in the passenger seat. robin will
melissa: the last two times the gas tax was raised, it was used to pay down the deficit. >> let me give you an example of where i think it may make sense. let's take new jersey which has been too much harm very much by hurricane sandy. we do not happen to pay a lot for gasoline in new jersey because we have low state taxes. if it went to funding for the reparations from sandy, it may make sense. you cannot be dismissive of it in any case. melissa: tom kloza, always a smart card. this is...
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all on the spending side and as many americans have to balance the wrong budget knows, if you have a deficit that means you have to bring in more rate comment and spend less. melissa: all we're ever talking about is raising taxes and nobody is talking about what we need to cut. the first thing you would do is stop spending. let's tighten our belts. regardless though you really think it is too late? i think they can come up with some solution that is held together with chicken wire and bubblegum and scotch tape and this little crummy thing that will keep us from going over the cliff pushing the whole problem off into the future. speak i think you have to treat two separate issues separately. one is avoiding the cliff, and i think the way to do that is to reach a short-term agreement on tax cut extensions. relatively optimistic they can get a long-term budget agreement done next year, but don't think they can do it in two weeks which is what the president thinks it's going to happen. if they separate the two issues and reach an agreement, that will onny be temporary. it is not like they're sig
all on the spending side and as many americans have to balance the wrong budget knows, if you have a deficit that means you have to bring in more rate comment and spend less. melissa: all we're ever talking about is raising taxes and nobody is talking about what we need to cut. the first thing you would do is stop spending. let's tighten our belts. regardless though you really think it is too late? i think they can come up with some solution that is held together with chicken wire and bubblegum...
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that still leaves a trillion dollars deficit. get serious. former ways and means committee chairman congressman bill archer joins us tonight at 7:00 eastern. stuart: well, the tax on dividends is going to go up next year. maybe by 3.8%. maybe by a whole lot more. depending on the fiscal cliff. larry ellison, top guy at oracle, he had an early dividend payout. he got a check for almost 200 million dollars. he saves 56 million by not getting that money next year. liz? liz: yeah, this is true for a lot of companies. it's the insiders who own stock in the companies that are making these moves. the so-called 1%. you know it is within their rights to do it. but what bothers me are those who say we must pay our fair share, the executives who are for, you know, raising taxes, that we have to sacrifice, and then they are avoiding higher taxes in obama care, as you point out over the break, nothing to do with the fiscal cliff, it is with health reform that they are avoiding. david: and these are the same people, the people who say we should pay more mo
that still leaves a trillion dollars deficit. get serious. former ways and means committee chairman congressman bill archer joins us tonight at 7:00 eastern. stuart: well, the tax on dividends is going to go up next year. maybe by 3.8%. maybe by a whole lot more. depending on the fiscal cliff. larry ellison, top guy at oracle, he had an early dividend payout. he got a check for almost 200 million dollars. he saves 56 million by not getting that money next year. liz? liz: yeah, this is true for...
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center debt reduction task force which like simpson-bowles offered clear-cut steps for cutting the deficit long before we were even talking about the fiscal cliff. former republican senator pete domenici from new mexico joins us now. senator, we just heard from speaker john boehner. it is very theatrical now. we wish everybody would come to the table and get serious. who is kidding who? bipartisanship is kind of a dirty word? >> well, look, i'm not sure that the anti-bipartisanship is what is at work here. i think until you get this down to four or five people, maybe six at the most that can make the decisions, you won't get it resolved. i have been here long enough to go through a very long summit and it ended up after many participants that eight people had settled it and came together at the end and of the eight, three finally made the basic decisions. so we can't tell who's, who's meeting with who but what's going on now, staff are developing different programs for these members, different ideas. this one will cost this much. this one will give this much but, from my standpoint i spent
center debt reduction task force which like simpson-bowles offered clear-cut steps for cutting the deficit long before we were even talking about the fiscal cliff. former republican senator pete domenici from new mexico joins us now. senator, we just heard from speaker john boehner. it is very theatrical now. we wish everybody would come to the table and get serious. who is kidding who? bipartisanship is kind of a dirty word? >> well, look, i'm not sure that the anti-bipartisanship is...